A Q&A with the iconic model who is a dear friend of Asiatica
How did you first meet Carmen?
Elizabeth: Of course I knew Carmen from photographs, but first met her at a big dinner party at Robert Ellsworth’s apartment in NYC in about 2004. I introduced myself and expressed my admiration and we had a quick and friendly chat.
Then what happened?
Elizabeth: We were holding a trunk show in the Mark Hotel at the time and it occurred to me that it would be wonderful if we could use her as a model for Asiatica. With one glance of our clothing on such a beautiful and iconic woman, we would be able to convey our message. I called and asked if she would like to come and see us and our clothes with a view to working together.
She was as charming and friendly as she was beautiful and unpretentious. We had several friends in common so there was a connection.
Who did the first photoshoot?
Elizabeth: Once we decided to work together the question of where and when to do a photoshoot was next. Of course I would have loved Irving Penn, but we discussed Victor Skrebneski in Chicago. I decided after talking with him that the logistics and cost of photography in Chicago with Carmen in NYC, the clothes in Kansas City would be beyond our budget. That was a shortsighted decision, since the residual photographs would have been of great value.
In the end we hired Diego Uchitel, whose work I had seen in a Bergdorf-Goodman catalogue. After paying for hair, make-up, studio lunch, photographer and assistants etc. the price was the same as that quoted by Skrebneski. It turned out that Carmen was totally able to do her own hair and make-up and those I hired just gaped at her admiringly. We did get some fine pictures which are quite timeless.
Subsequently, we did a shoot in Kansas City with Carmen as a charming houseguest and Ron Berg getting a great image in front of the yet-to-be-completed Nelson-Atkins Museum’s Bloch building. We also did a shoot with Hollis Officer in New York City on location near Columbus Circle.
Are you still friends?
Elizabeth: Yes. Carmen has become a remarkable friend. We have dinner together when I am in New York and keep in touch frequently. She is a remarkable, resilient, intelligent and generous person. In addition I value her life experiences and her responses to them.
Now Some Questions for Carmen:
How have you approached the fact of your exceptional beauty? Are there any disadvantages?
Carmen: Well Elizabeth, it's always been difficult for me, respecting everyone's reaction to the way I look. As I wasn't my own ideal “physical type.” My inner reaction with few exceptions was usually: Well, OK, if you say so. And I continued being that silent actress on the pages of the magazines projecting fantasy worlds, which was and is my job. But my personal life was a more extraordinary fantasy than those fashion pages could ever tell! Today I have to say there are more advantages than disadvantages, because I've learned to negotiate and navigate many kinds of people and situations.
Photograph of Carmen wearing ASIATICA by Diego Uchitel.
Describe the differences in the business of modeling in the days of Avedon? Penn? And today?
Carmen: When I began, World War II had just ended, and fashion photography wasn't a business as much as an art form that told a coherent visual story and that depicted a new wonderful world and showed us how to dress for any occasion.
Today, anyone with a camera can point and shoot and be called a photographer — not withstanding a few exceptions I’ve experienced. At the moment there seems to be a dearth of the worldly seasoned photographers or personally stylish fashion editors of the previous kind.
Today anyone can and does call themselves a “stylist,” and cannot be compared to the fabulously stylish seasoned ladies I worked with for many decades. The old world of haute couture that guided society through magazine pages and fashion shows, has outlived its usefulness.
In the days just after World War II, for the photographers, models, and the well heeled society fashion editors, (no such thing as stylists) it all was about “individuality” and what was appropriate to wear and look like for any event, big or small. The photography pages in the fashion magazines were a guideline to perfection for its readers, who during the War years really had no event to go to or dress for… other than the debutantes coming-out ball.
Yes everyone even then had to make a profit, but were not driven so totally by advertisers and the almighty $ as is the case today. As the population grew exponentially, and the blue jean decades entered, clothing was affordable but it was the beginning of the slippery slide to anything goes! Individuality became harder and harder to sustain economically.
The general population I see every day on the streets, look unkempt, having morphed into some form of exercise clothes as a daily uniform... This was before the pandemic and now even more so…
Photograph of Carmen wearing ASIATICA by Ron Berg at the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art.
Who are the most exceptional people in your life and their lessons?
Carmen: I have got to start with my mother who told me something unfortunately which I've come to know as fact: “The whole goddamn world can be wrong, and you're right!” Mother I'm so sorry to say how right you were, although I didn't understand what you were talking about then. But those few words stuck to my ribs and helped me become the person I am today.
On the other hand, I sure wish you hadn't told me I had ears like sedan doors and feet like coffins. It took me a long time to get over that one, but I ultimately realized you were right about that too. But most importantly, you demonstrated to me throughout your life that, life is a do-it-yourself kit. I took heed and proceeded accordingly, gaining a modicum of success in my lifetime but I've had the privilege of a lot more help along the way than you ever had. You will always remain the first remarkable person in my life.
But of course the love of my life is the man you used to call “that good for nothing!” You were the nuts and bolts of my early life. However “that good for nothing” with his unending approval and love was the lubricating oil that kept my engine going.
Next in order of appearance as important are: my self-appointed godparents, who met me when I was seven, and started introducing me big-time to, “Myself” thus altering the course of my life, by making me ready for everything good that they were the catalyst for making happen. Their unending loving interest in my well-being in those growing years continued until they both died a few years ago. They were truly a catalyst for me understanding, building, and owning my personhood, before my career ever started!
Then, there is the long list of people in the past, and others along the way, who took the time and interest through the years, that contributed to the development of yours truly.
What about current times?
Carmen: Current times didn't happen all of a sudden. The upside of this pandemic may be, having awakened the world in enough time to correct and see where we were headed. I believe we are all complicit one way or another in where we’ve arrived, whether directly or by omission and together will be equally complicit in where we are all going.
Please note, I avoid saying “end up” because, we must all keep going, keep the faith, because we are all in it together, and it’s our choice not to “end up” where we were headed, but to work diligently even in the smallest way to make this a better world for every living soul!
Is anyone asking for your advice? About life? About what your experiences have taught you?
Carmen: Well it’s like this; I would never try to teach a pig how to sing, because he'd resent it and it would make the pig angry and I'd be frustrated!
My experiences in life have taught me that; Every human being, including the world itself, and everything on it, is a work of art in progress! This one about says it all; DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE TO YOURSELF! AND, DO THE RIGHT THING WHEN NO ONE'S LOOKING!
Never a lender or borrower be, however if a friend is in need, and I am able to, it's my pleasure to give them a gift, not to be returned.
About giving advice: even when asked, life keeps teaching me in the end, the less said the better. But when pushed, I throw their question back at them and ask, how do you really think this should be handled? So often, after a few minutes they delightedly give “themselves" the answer they were looking for, from me!